The interview with Marat Guelman took place almost mid-swim in a picturesque, rocky bay at sunset, where a fatigued Marat Guelman was passionately paddleboarding.
DOSSIER: Marat Guelman is a Russian collector, gallerist, publicist, and art manager. He is the former director of the Perm Museum of Contemporary Art (PERMM). From June 2002 to February 2004, he served as the Deputy General Director of JSC "Channel One." He is a political strategist, one of the founders of the Foundation for Effective Politics, and was a member of the Public Chamber of the 2010–2012 convocation.
Vladislav Bozheday (VB): Marat, right now there are quite a few projects that cater to people over 50 or 60 years old. For instance, Vladimir Yakovlev's “The Age of Happiness” or Dmitry Veremeenko's “School of Longevity.” What do you think about this trend? Why has it become so popular?
Marat Guelman (MG): The thing is, today a vast number of people past middle age emerged who feel young and active. For instance, my grandfather was an old man at 67, but I don't seem to be. Yet at the same time, I am not 30 years old either. And that means I must have a different lifestyle. Many people fail to understand this and fall into a crisis, because this pocket of time simply did not exist before. In literature or cinema, there is no description of how a young 60-year-old person is supposed to live. This is a brand-new social phenomenon. Vladimir Yakovlev tries to explain to people how to launch a business at 60. What does it mean to fall in love at this age? How should one dress to avoid looking ridiculous, like an old man desperately trying to look young? He talks about a specific period that didn't exist in the past but exists now. And he labels this ageism. Meanwhile, Dmitry Veremeenko’s “School of Longevity” provides knowledge on how to extend a healthy life.
VB: Is this a framework for active longevity?
MG: Yes. The answers to the questions "Why is everyone searching for themselves? How to achieve longevity?" are provided by Dmitry Veremeenko, while the answer to "How to live with this? What to do?" can be found with Vladimir Yakovlev. For example, learning which sport is best to pick up at 60, or mastering a few rules for doing business during this stage of life: command no one, submit to no one. Instead of working an unloved job, it is better to turn your hobby into a business. If you love to travel—create an exclusive travel agency. If you love to ride boards—take other people out riding. There is nowhere left to postpone it. Social obligations have been fulfilled; the children are grown.
VB: Is this a kind of existential despair, where a person senses the approach of death and realizes that if it doesn't happen now, it never will?
MG: No, there is no despair at all. Look, let's say we have civilization. A portion of our experience wasn't earned by us personally; we adopted it from others. And we know how young people are supposed to dress. At one point, youth wasn't a distinct class with its own commerce and its own idols. They were just "under-adults." Then the revolution of the sixties occurred, and the youth said: "We are not 'under-adults.' We have a different lifestyle, different idols, and we want to dress differently. We have a different life." Right now, a layer of these people has its own ageism. Similarly, older people are asserting their rights. They possess the strength and capabilities to get things done. They know how to live, and most importantly, they hold the privilege of living for today. They understand that today is no worse than tomorrow. Why must one do something today just so tomorrow will be good? It is necessary for today to be good. And it’s not worth sacrificing today for the sake of tomorrow. Meaning, tomorrow is no better than today.
VB: Can a lifestyle be changed by changing a mindset?
MG: Presumably, yes.
VB: How can art influence a change in mindset?
MG: Art, of course, possesses traditional tools. An artist traditionally creates an image. He can impact a person, create a certain picture that will suddenly explain everything, opening all the doors that previously refused to open. An artist creates something unique. And since science and medicine are currently becoming personalized, he can share his technologies with scientists. Show them how to operate personally, uniquely, without generalization. The mentality of a scientist, an entrepreneur, and an artist is identical. There are highly valuable ideas and the capacity to work on your own ideas 24 hours a day, investing in yourself. All of this aligns. I think that an artist, in a certain sense, possesses the mentality of a person of the future.
VB: Is it roughly the same for fanatics?
MG: No, I think that for a fanatic, the idea stands at the forefront, whereas here, it is still the human being. He is realizing himself. An entrepreneur is not a slave to an idea. If he calculates that an idea doesn't work, he looks for a new one.
VB: Your concept of creating a search engine for events and activities is fascinating. Will this project solve problems that Facebook cannot handle with its events feature?
MG: On Facebook, you can merely blast out invitations to events, whereas my application solves many diverse tasks. For example, small towns lack media outlets. Most importantly, they lack the capacity to broadcast something to the wider world. Meaning, there is no connectivity. The WhatWhere application solves these problems. In large cities, there is no room for marginality. Let's say you are interested in a highly niche topic in music or art. It is impossible for you to locate your like-minded peers. This is a search engine for current, relevant events. Furthermore, the user can act as a persona and curate their own event log. I can generate my own log and append a commentary: "Right here you will get a fantastic impression. But don't go over there; there was no impression to be had." Utilizing the search engine, you can assemble a collection of lectures on psychology or select interesting events tied to that topic.
VB: Does art, as a vehicle for personal transformation, intersect with psychology and psychotherapy?
MG: Speaking seriously, art is naturally not a medicine; it is a pain. It heals nothing, changes nothing on its own. But it presents things exceptionally well. It presents the disease, the problem. It renders everything more transparent, more obvious, and delivers a far more accurate diagnosis. Ever since the late 19th century, a conversation has been ongoing regarding whether art can change something within society or an individual. There are numerous instances where the answer could be "yes." But on the whole, globally, the answer is "no." Because that is not its purpose. The moment you attempt to adapt art to solve a specific task, it sheds its properties. Things happen accidentally. Mikhail Gorbachev once stated that my father's plays influenced Perestroika. But if my father had suddenly written those plays not as artistic works, but as a specialized structural mechanism, there would have been no good plays.
VB: Are there patterns in art that can be computed using artificial intelligence?
MG: Such technologies do not exist, because computation belongs to marketing, and marketing does not work in art. What works in art is that you must locate your like-minded peers. Together you are stronger; you will be able to convince the world that your perspective is compelling.
VB: It's strange to hear from a gallerist that marketing doesn't work in art.
MG: We have never mounted a single exhibition that was driven by market demand.
VB: But was the market factored in somewhere in the background?
MG: In what way can it be factored in? For instance, an artist has a magnificent work, and we are deciding on which medium to print it. We do it so that when a collector asks, "How long will this work endure?" I can respond: "For 200 years, if you like." That is what is factored in. An artist manufactures a product that is initially not needed by anyone. Marketing is craftsmanship. Obviously, when a person stands on the Embankment painting Monet continuously, he is not creating a work of art. But it is good marketing. He computed that people traveling to Paris will step out onto the Embankment and see a person painting like Monet. For example, on Red Square, you need to do something else—watercolors of St. Basil's Cathedral. That is also marketing.
VB: In your interview, you stated that when everything is automated, communicating with a personality and understanding mass psychology becomes paramount. And sociology and psychology are the most fascinating things that can exist today. How do you factor current knowledge about neuropsychology and psychology into the creation of exhibitions?
MG: I don't factor it in at all, of course. I simply inhabit the profession not 24 hours a day, but for a certain number of hours a day. For a certain number of hours, I am a father to my children, and for a certain number of hours, I am simply a contemporary man who observes what is unfolding and records it in some manner. I must note that I have learned to work exceptionally well when staff is present. Meaning, I know how to delegate the non-creative portion of the labor. Consequently, I possess a vast amount of time to contemplate.
Sometimes I reflect on which sciences will be supplanted by artificial intelligence and which will not. At a certain juncture, I realized that the only things that will remain are the intangible world and the profession of the architect. Because a colossal volume of things simply cannot be crammed into a computer. Sometimes it appears to me that everything is dissolving into mathematics, logic, and so forth. The most incomprehensible, most fascinating thing that remains is the human being. And that is when I think about psychology and sociology. Everything else will be mechanized. You only need to guess what the individual wants, what society wants, and mathematics will execute the rest.
VB: Can art assist with adaptation?
MG: People who study art develop their creative core. That is the primary and most important thing. Contemporary art shares its creative component with the public. A person perceiving art must be no less creative than the artist who generates the canvases. A person who frequently interfaces with art develops their "creative muscle."
The second thing is, naturally, a passion for the new. If you want to preserve yourself—do what you are not good at. Engage with the new. Art cultivates the capacity to perceive the new, the unusual, and to find joy in it. Rather than sinking, for instance, into drugs or computer games—places where you received pleasure and are attempting to repeat it. When you engage with art, you do not derive pleasure from repetition.
VB: So the psychotherapeutic value of art lies in developing brain flexibility?
MG: Presumably. There is the concept of expanding one's horizons. It’s like a background download of information. I have been professionally engaged in art for 27 years. Yet I still arrive at new forums and feel a deficit of knowledge, experiencing the necessity for a download. These are the qualities that art cultivates.
VB: The thing is, psychotherapists also believe that psychotherapy is an art form. Many refer to it as the art of the conversational genre.
MG: A personalized science, but not a technology. Usually, science is technological. It is built upon the reproducibility of an experiment. Psychotherapy, since it interfaces with the unique, contains elements of art. What distinguishes art from technology? For example, people arrive in the exact same city, and a week later they produce completely different works. In science, it is the reverse. By this scale, you can comprehend where your line of activity sits. And state—this is rather a science than an art, or vice versa.
VB: Do you think you will succeed in boosting Montenegro's appeal through art?
MG: I have succeeded already. When I first arrived in Montenegro and spoke with the residents, I inquired: "What can you offer the world?" They responded that they excel at doing absolutely nothing beautifully. They assumed I would dismiss this. Instead, I constructed a concept upon it. The business of leisure time is the fastest-growing business in the world. And instead of resurrecting industrial sanctions, one can construct a country that excels at spending leisure time better than anyone else. Now we are forging a country where one can spend time beautifully. With self-enrichment. Obviously, the entire world cannot operate this way. But this will be the premier location. Imagine a person working a shift in Surgut, and subsequently arriving and spending their capital in Moscow. Which city will be wealthier? Moscow, of course. This is a different economy, and the future belongs to it.
